His Majesty, Tarpel Gerlens al Dalame al Shorkyne; Telkor al Tharia; Malnir al Quareld, Kemol, and Montivel; Esuar al Quarelin, Anbrath, Bolede, Chegote, Chires, Kerola, Magratea, Medana, Misena, Montevel, Regona, Siden, Xeota, and Zhelet (14 direct votes and 8 vassal votes)
His Highness, Telkor Rumath al Pelanby al Alagon; Malnir al Meloda, Bodoe, and Pelodia; Esuar al Eshapel, Areshones, Bodara, Chansa, Chardel, Felkenby, Hamedar, Hesen, Imedeles, Jeloen, Karemus, Karthan, Lutana, Mekrelyn, Meshare, Midoris, Noraby, Seberon, Turen, Vankedon (20 direct votes and 25 vassal votes)
His Highness, Telkor Kordus al Tabin al Ensel; Malnir al Kitalin, Hidel, Istebina, and Nistone; Esuar al Enselet, Anurn, Delenes, Filsan, Gaveshones, Gilend, Harbraen, Heparon, Hiliro, Jandor, Kecharin, Lacheryn, Lesaren, Nure, Odirun, Parnith, Quarena, Rigenos, Tivara, Vandis, Wyra (21 direct votes and 22 vassal votes) (and 3 forts)
Her Highness, Telkora Estir al Medaro al Vadone; Malnira al Vadone and Elavona; Esuara al Vadone, Atoxis, Abeshres, Balaire, Chesomes, Feshimes, Girelet, Karme, Logines, Nevare, Rushe, Sisom, Tulon, and Zhentimes (14 direct votes and 10 vassal votes)
Her Highness, Telkora Siren al Bideles al Kolare; Malnira al Kolare and Chomu; Esuara al Kolare, Berech, Greneth, Hegynes, Hidesi, Kesino, Neln, Penina, and Teleged (9 direct votes and 6 vassal votes)
The Most Reverend Gatun al Isara, Lirrath al Shorkyne; Serekela al Netela; Malnir al Netela; Esuar al Netela and Sedyn (2 direct votes)
His Excellency, Malnir Amin al Gavarines al Aneola; Esuar al Eslon, Bekela, Gedeli, Mirate, and Montelea (5 direct votes and 6 vassal votes) (and 1 fort)
His Excellency, Malnir Aba al Misyr al Avan; Esuar al Telekur, Bedel, Chiden, Debelin, Kothume, and Shomes (6 direct votes and 3 vassal votes)
His Excellency, Malnir Anfla al Dasendis al Dumala; Esuar al Turesgal, Isheres, Poledin, and Teselus (4 direct votes and 4 vassal votes)
His Excellency, Malnir Ganis al Gorlume al Falimae; Esuar al Chures, Cerole, Dilvain, Fedonele, and Kamolin (5 direct votes and 1 vassal vote)
His Excellency, Malnir Emane al Hethara al Loala; Esuar al Holegore, Andrin, Geleo, Ostelones, Sonise, and Vesteth (6 direct votes and 2 vassal votes) (and 1 guildtown)
His Excellency, Malnir Tenesal al Suredara al Malpynia; Esuar al Eilyria, Balok, Norlay, and Sagora (4 direct votes and 5 vassal votes)
His Excellency, Malnir Medal al Odalin al Pilatha; Esuar al Thanrin, Kovis, and Lesyn (3 direct votes and 7 vassal votes)
Her Excellency, Malnira Bryna al Telthael al Sabinia; Esaura al Sabin, Ciduri, Delge, Hireshe, Horote, Mernal, and Pusinis (7 direct votes and 3 vassal votes) (and 2 forts)
His Excellency, Malnir Calam al Valdinoren al Shaplane; Esuar al Antiome, Asharyn, Beson, Haidigen, Hegelia, Jirone, and Wedel (7 direct votes and 6 vassal votes)
Note that the 6 forts and 1 guildtown (Trepura) are not esuaren, so the totals are 15 malniri (holding 127 direct votes) and 108 esuari.
Jack, Check your copy of the Shorkyne Regional Map. Any square on that map which is _not_ named on the 'Grid Square Names' layer, you can 99% expect that KP will not publish a square with any troublesome tiny islands or underwater features. (Makes you wonder, though, what KP will do with SHKN I7 :)
And our apologies for taking a year or so after you first posted asking about square SHKN K6 before it was published. Part of the delay was working out where _all_ of the Hurisean smallholds were located.
On the main Atlas Kelestia page, would it be possible to put a red X or similar mark in each of the map squares that are purely water? That would help me visualize where the islands, reefs, whirlpools, and so on are hiding...
And I'm thrilled to see the beginnings of Hurisea!
Jack, the Ledenheim Clans 1.0.2 file originally uploaded to this website didn't have the updated version number in the page footers. I thought that file was replaced a day or two later, but it looks like there was a goof up. Nevertheless, the three typos in the Ledensen family tree on page 39 were fixed in the version of the PDF that you downloaded. Those were the only corrections in the file.
The day after I purchased SV, I dropped it onto the Kindle. Why? I could immediately tell that it was heavy reading, the kind that I use to weigh cause and effect and maintain consistency. I needed it, but I needed long-term, as I was beginning to understand that branding and grounding crucial institutions that drive the world (the Mangai, the Shek-P'var and the churches) would
So I've been reading it, a step at a time, and it's been excellent, especially in its attempts to explain how the 'evil' churches became so ubiquitous, despite their vileness (Baal only held appeal for wholly militaristic cultures, and better-advertised Gods submerged the Baalite-temple religion as Hellenism swept the middle east)
--I had a hard time understanding, prior to SV, how enough enthusiastic folk could be gathered together to call something a 'theocracy' of Tekhos--Real-world religions usually need something more huggable than a god of death to work from. I read Kelestian material as I read real history.
My (first Harnic) campaign has moved from 720 to 723 in the space of 6 months Terran Time, and even working from the core at Kaldor, I've needed to build foundations for more and more institutions in the world, even in that land-locked corner. If the PCs voyaged to Chel, i would need even more depth--a thorough understanding, for example, of how Shorkyne, Trierzon, and Harn were all caught with their pants down by the Ivinian Viking age, and what legacies of that time still hold.
In short, SV is for reading, not in-game reference, very helpful to GM prep, and overall adds as much to Kethira as Robin's first 1983 offering and Venarive have. It's certainly a boutique product, but If I'm going to write anything for publication at Lythia, Here, or The Other Company, I now have an encyclopedic tome that I can call upon to build consistency. It's a writer's bible, and having it on my kindle is great.
As for formatting/cover pages, I might've enjoyed headings for some of the sections, even though the narrative flows from one to the next. Being able to find the 'Azeryan,' or 'Laranian and Peonian regigion-complex' sections more readily, or perhaps given more visible fanfare, might add to the experience. But this is a miniscule nit to pick with an excellent tome that I have yet to fully excavate.
I have to avow my disagreement with another poster on 'the last twenty years.' Players don't appreciate history lectures, true; but they do appreciate layering. As the most recent Atlas Kelestia points out, Pirate bases are far more interesting and flavorful when they're ghost towns sacked by vikings a sesquecentury hence.
Now that is an example of my general ignorance of publishing. Of course different writers working in one area need reference documents. In that light, polishing Summa Venariva up and releasing it to all of us makes sense. And the general information on religion was informative; you're right - an entire campaign could be built around heresy. (One man's heresy is another man's truth.) Heck, an entire empire was built around it back in the 500's...
I just hope that more Ledenheim-type articles will be forthcoming...
It's good to read your view (and, just to note, I had nothing to do with SV's production at all), but I'll post a dissenting one.
First of all, I think that, to get a setting as consistent and durable as Kethîra - especially with contributions from several writers - some background documents like this are essential. That being the case, releasing a "cleaned up" version to fans seems like a very reasonable and potentially useful thing to do (may inform and inspire more writers!).
Secondly, I don't find that SV has no plot hooks! The type of hook it provides may well be somewhat deeper and more "long term" than those in the typical supplement, but I think campaigns can surely benefit from such "thematic hooks". Take, for example, the histories and origins of the various religions; I can see several possible focuses for heretic sects in those sections of SV - and heretic sects are *always* fun!
In short, real world history shapes many of the conflicts in the real world; it seems reasonable that the same may be true in Kethîra. Conflict leads to story, which is why it's the core of roleplaying scenarios - so history can give us cues to current conflict which can serve as hooks for roelplaying scenarios - hence I like those "history" sections in the supplements.
Oh - and on e-books... I like the Kindle one to use on my Kindle apps, but I find the Kindle itself not particularly useful for "reference" or illustrated material (although it cannot be beaten for straight fiction reading!). The other format I don't (knowingly) have any application to read it with...
I let this thread sit for awhile before responding because I wanted to see what comments others had. (Obviously, not many. LOL)
I bought Summa Venariva the day it was released as I do all non-HMG products by Kelestia Productions. My download included the two extra formats, but I immediately deleted them because - call me a caveman - I still use a laptop. I know that those formats will be available for me to download in the future if I need them (thank you), but frankly, I don't see myself transitioning away from .pdf's anytime soon. Consider all of the other KP products that I've purchased, plus all of the fanon articles on Lythia.com. New technology is great, but are all of those products and articles going to be re-released in the iPad and Kindle formats? Probably not . . . and I was under the impression that you could view .pdf's on a Kindle anyway. I know I can view them on my iPhone and therefore could on the iPad that I can't afford. So, in my opinion (and it's just that, an opinion), the extra formats did not add value to the product.
As for Summa Venariva itself, the product was clearly a labor of love for someone. It did a wonderful job of tying the many disparate threads of Venarivan culture together to explain why Venarive is not medieval Europe. (Amusingly, Summa Venariva was released just a day or two after someone posted a question about standing armies to which someone else replied, "Venarive isn't medieval Europe." LOL) However, I'm not sure that it's a truly useful product.
As a GM, I pay precious little attention to the (often extensive) history section of each published settlement. I know that section is a long-standing tradition in Harn/Venarive publications and the information contained therein is interesting, but most of it (except the last ten or twenty years) is rarely of use in a role-playing campaign. I've never seen a player who cared at all about it. (Maybe that's just our play-style.) Likewise, I don't expect that too many players will have much use for Summa Venariva. For that matter, a lot of GM's might not. GM's want/need setting details (like Atlas Kelestia), rules, hooks (scattered throughout most KP products, but not Summa Venariva), etc. Why? Because at heart this is supposed to be a role-playing game and games need settings and rules and something to do with them. Would the average (or even the extraordinary) player-character in Venarive know even one percent of the information in Summa Venariva? I doubt it. Venarive is not medieval Europe, but that doesn't need to be justified - it needs to be accepted. The RPG term is suspension of disbelief.
I love the Atlas Kelestia products. They're a little light on detail, but I can make details up. Good maps are hard to come by, however. I also liked the Chelemby articles, and the Ledenheim material was absolutely incredible! (Made me want to run a campaign set in Ledenheim - Clan Armedren for the win!) I also truly appreciate the difficulty of running a niche company - most gamers aren't interested in the likes of Venarive - in a declining market (most gamers aren't interested in RPG's at all anymore). I just feel like Summa Venariva, while a beautifully-done product, is ultimately a misallocation of limited resources.
All of that, of course, is just my opinion. Others probably disagree. That's why we have forums. I don't know exactly what KP has in the pipeline and I don't know exactly how hard it is to wrap up a product and release it. I just feel like KP is falling away from the likes of Ledenheim and Chelemby. I love the immersive experience of gaming in Venarive. However, I like immersing myself in 720 TR, not 300 BT.
I really have enjoyed both sections on Emelrene and want to see more. However, I have to agree with Trotsky that I believe that a book on Emelrene is called for to put everthing into perspective. Keep up the good work and I look forward to more on Emelrene! Sooner than later I hope. :-)
The simple answer is that Venârivè is not in the "middle ages" of Earth. In fact, Venârians think they are in the 'modern era' :)
There are many key differences - but one the greatest is that while Empire of Ázeryàn is smaller than it used to be, but it has not 'fallen'; in fact in recent decades it has been growing in strength.
The structures and resources of Venârian societies are not a simple translation of medieval European analogues. Many 'ancient' and 'medieval' societies on Earth had standing armies - China, Japan, Rome, and so forth.
I look forward to seeing this whenever you manage to finish it. :) Your help is much appreciated. I'm not sure when I'll be able to play in or run Harn as a setting, but when I do I'm sure I'll find the tables useful.
I have to say, I'm impressed with the quality of the Detule and Argonel material. I find Emelrene more interesting than either Shorkyne (the kingdom) or Harbaal - not that those aren't also done well, of course, but they just aren't as useful for what I'd want to do. Emelrene, on the other hand, is something I can easily see myself using.
I assume that the next AK area will be in either Harbaal or Shorkyne, and that's a sensible choice. When you do return to Emelrene, though, I'd like to see CX before DX, because it will help to put things more in context (wth the importance of Deserid), as well as because of the obvious contiguity.
I foresee, however, a couple of obstacles to really using Emelrene as a setting at the moment. One is that you'd need, at some point, to do AK squares in the Trierzon region. I don't know how likely that is, or how it would go down with other purchasers, bearing in mind how much of Shorkyne remains to be covered - including such key squares as GX, G6, H3, D8, and L5.
The second one is that, to really use the setting, there needs to be something more than AK entries, as cool as those are. An Emelrene book, like the one for Ledenheim, strikes me as not just desirable, but almost essential to really play in the area. Something, in short, that gives a more detailed view of Emelrene society, culture, and national politics. The 'big picture', if you will. I don't know if you're working on one, but it's something I'd be looking for, to put the AK areas into a proper context, and really provide the basis for a campaign.