Recent comments

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    Ken,

    Thank you for this inside view how Hârn can work.

    For my house rule i do simplify and I forgot about that every level has his own multilevel spell.
    I had the idea that a multilevel spell is a sort of a spellchain.
    A Shek Pvar who level up a multilevel spell up does not learn a new spell, she let the spell grow. She learns new facets of the spell.
    But the simple house rule does not catch this. (It was a game table desicion and not worked over because the player of the Shek Pvar left.)

    Even if she learned a new spell why should she forget the old level, why will the "aural memory" be damaged?

    If the Process is a sort of growing into something bigger, perhaps the wizard just can use the older knowledge.

    That just will work if the multilevel spell has no sole spell in each level.

    (Sorry if it is a little confusing, but it is a long time ago that I try to do a complex topic in English,:-))

    Thanks

    Cyrion

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    Hi Jack,

    1. Well now, that's something we need to remedy eh? ;)
    2. Hadn't even thought of that.
    3. Thanks! (Now who do I convince you it's a 10?) :)

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    Hi Jack,

    1. Well now, that's something we need to remedy eh? ;)
    2. Hadn't even thought of that.
    3. Thanks! (Now who do I convince you it's a 10?) :)

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    Ken -

    1) I don't use (or own) HMG, so I'm handicapped when I read HMG posts.

    2) The initial post about the loss of skill going from Maintain II to Maintain III made the HMG magic system sound really bad to someone who's never read it (like me).

    3) Your explanation was stunningly clear, perfectly explained the relationships involved, and greatly improved my opinion of the HMG magic rules (like from 2 to 9 or so on the ten-scale).

    Great job, sir!

    ----------

    Old style heraldry: Sable, the pale argent.

    New style heraldry: Oreo, resting on edge.

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    Ken -

    1) I don't use (or own) HMG, so I'm handicapped when I read HMG posts.

    2) The initial post about the loss of skill going from Maintain II to Maintain III made the HMG magic system sound really bad to someone who's never read it (like me).

    3) Your explanation was stunningly clear, perfectly explained the relationships involved, and greatly improved my opinion of the HMG magic rules (like from 2 to 9 or so on the ten-scale).

    Great job, sir!

    ----------

    Old style heraldry: Sable, the pale argent.

    New style heraldry: Oreo, resting on edge.

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    The house rule gives the Shek-Pvar an inappropriate bonus to lower level complexity spells in my opinion. Essentially what's happening is that by upgradeing the spell the Shek-Pvar initially maintains his ML of the lower level or actually increases it and then gains a double progression in the lower level spell onwards.

    Example:

    Maintain II ML = 80
    Upgrade to Maintain III CS
    Maintain III ML = 60
    Maintain II ML jumps to 120?

    Or

    Maintain II ML = 80
    Upgrade to Maintain III MS
    Maintain III ML = 40
    Maintain II ML stays at 80.

    So intially, the Shek Pvar might gain a significant boost through this process. Too much in my opinion. Even if they only maintain the same level at first, they will still ADVANCE that lower level spell at twice the rate they would normally. A plus 1 to the ML of Maintain III equals an automatic plus 2 to the level of Maintain II.

    Another way to look at it is this. Multi-Level spells aren't.

    I don't think HMG: Shek-Pvar does a very good job at getting across that the spell descriptions and names are only examples and are often arranged simply for the reader's convenience.

    Each and every spell that a Shek-Pvar knows is uniquely personal to them. A spell is the manipulation of cosmic forces through the prism of ones OWN aura. So while Maintain level 2 is a certain spell for Ackbar the Great, it's a completely different one for Sheila Silvertongue. There are similarities to be sure, and the game effect is the same. But that's it.

    On to the multi-level spells. The text states that "a distinct version exists for each complexity level". In other words, Maintain II is NOT the same spell as Maintain III. It would be tedious to explicitly write out each and every multi-level and multi-convocational spell in the already overly large HMG: Shek Pvar publication, so all the "Maintains" have been lumped together under one spell entry. That doesn't make them the same spell though. One could just as easily (and perhaps more accurately) call one spell Sheila's Endurance, and the other Pvaric Longevity. Two different spells, two different MLs, similar effects.

    When a Shek-Pvar is casting Maintain III. That's what he's casting, and his mastery over that and the difficulty it entails remains the same regardless of the target spell he's trying to affect. He doesn't NEED to cast Maintain III on a level II spell if he has Maintain II at his disposal, but he is free to do so, and it is entirely possible that he is (though repeated practice) better at Maintain III than at Maintain II. If the reverse is the case, then by all means, a prudent Shek-Pvar would simply cast Maintain II.

    Now the rules do muddy things a bit when they talk about converting "multi-level spells" from one complexity level to the next. It explains a procedure where you drop the SB by 1 (the normal expression of complexity level's affect on SB) and then test the original spells ML, resulting in a 25% to 50% drop in the OML of the new spell. In this case you "erase" the old version.

    What the Shek-Pvar is essentially doing in this case is NOT learning the new "proper" Maintain III, but instead learning how to kludge more power through the Maintain II spell. She is simply forcing more principle through her form in order to gain the extra capabilities of Maintain III. A Shek-Pvar's Form is simply a mental template, an understanding of the relationship between her aura and the forces of reality around it. It is a finely tuned "state of being" that requires intense concentration and sensitivity.

    Increasing the complexity level of an existing spell by forcing more principle through it than one is accustomed to, damages the "aural memory" of the form. The Shek-Pvar has essentially "widened the gap" and can't close it back up except by essentially relearning the old state of the form. In other words, reopening Maintain II as a new, seperate spell.

    Note, to open Maintain III, you CAN convert Maintain II; but you don't HAVE to. Instead, you could simply research Maintain III as a new spell and even use the spell similarity optional rule to gain a Research Target Level bonus.

    That make any sense?

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    The house rule gives the Shek-Pvar an inappropriate bonus to lower level complexity spells in my opinion. Essentially what's happening is that by upgradeing the spell the Shek-Pvar initially maintains his ML of the lower level or actually increases it and then gains a double progression in the lower level spell onwards.

    Example:

    Maintain II ML = 80
    Upgrade to Maintain III CS
    Maintain III ML = 60
    Maintain II ML jumps to 120?

    Or

    Maintain II ML = 80
    Upgrade to Maintain III MS
    Maintain III ML = 40
    Maintain II ML stays at 80.

    So intially, the Shek Pvar might gain a significant boost through this process. Too much in my opinion. Even if they only maintain the same level at first, they will still ADVANCE that lower level spell at twice the rate they would normally. A plus 1 to the ML of Maintain III equals an automatic plus 2 to the level of Maintain II.

    Another way to look at it is this. Multi-Level spells aren't.

    I don't think HMG: Shek-Pvar does a very good job at getting across that the spell descriptions and names are only examples and are often arranged simply for the reader's convenience.

    Each and every spell that a Shek-Pvar knows is uniquely personal to them. A spell is the manipulation of cosmic forces through the prism of ones OWN aura. So while Maintain level 2 is a certain spell for Ackbar the Great, it's a completely different one for Sheila Silvertongue. There are similarities to be sure, and the game effect is the same. But that's it.

    On to the multi-level spells. The text states that "a distinct version exists for each complexity level". In other words, Maintain II is NOT the same spell as Maintain III. It would be tedious to explicitly write out each and every multi-level and multi-convocational spell in the already overly large HMG: Shek Pvar publication, so all the "Maintains" have been lumped together under one spell entry. That doesn't make them the same spell though. One could just as easily (and perhaps more accurately) call one spell Sheila's Endurance, and the other Pvaric Longevity. Two different spells, two different MLs, similar effects.

    When a Shek-Pvar is casting Maintain III. That's what he's casting, and his mastery over that and the difficulty it entails remains the same regardless of the target spell he's trying to affect. He doesn't NEED to cast Maintain III on a level II spell if he has Maintain II at his disposal, but he is free to do so, and it is entirely possible that he is (though repeated practice) better at Maintain III than at Maintain II. If the reverse is the case, then by all means, a prudent Shek-Pvar would simply cast Maintain II.

    Now the rules do muddy things a bit when they talk about converting "multi-level spells" from one complexity level to the next. It explains a procedure where you drop the SB by 1 (the normal expression of complexity level's affect on SB) and then test the original spells ML, resulting in a 25% to 50% drop in the OML of the new spell. In this case you "erase" the old version.

    What the Shek-Pvar is essentially doing in this case is NOT learning the new "proper" Maintain III, but instead learning how to kludge more power through the Maintain II spell. She is simply forcing more principle through her form in order to gain the extra capabilities of Maintain III. A Shek-Pvar's Form is simply a mental template, an understanding of the relationship between her aura and the forces of reality around it. It is a finely tuned "state of being" that requires intense concentration and sensitivity.

    Increasing the complexity level of an existing spell by forcing more principle through it than one is accustomed to, damages the "aural memory" of the form. The Shek-Pvar has essentially "widened the gap" and can't close it back up except by essentially relearning the old state of the form. In other words, reopening Maintain II as a new, seperate spell.

    Note, to open Maintain III, you CAN convert Maintain II; but you don't HAVE to. Instead, you could simply research Maintain III as a new spell and even use the spell similarity optional rule to gain a Research Target Level bonus.

    That make any sense?

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    Simple and elegant, nice house rule to me.

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    Simple and elegant, nice house rule to me.

  • HârnCon VI [August 29 - 31] Vancouver   11 years 21 weeks ago

    I would like to get some feedback about the type of event we will run during the Saturday evening slot at HârnCon. This slot is typically reserved for a group event, recreating a significant event from Hârnic history.

    At HârnCon I, JPM and Kerry (and others I'm sure) ran the Kaldoric Succession Council.

    Any ideas about what would be fun to do this year?

    Cheers,
    Brian

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    I have a houserule for this case.

    When a Shek Pvar learns a multilevel spell up, he can cast the lower versions with an EML of double the ML of the higher version.

  • Multi Level Spells   11 years 21 weeks ago

    I have a houserule for this case.

    When a Shek Pvar learns a multilevel spell up, he can cast the lower versions with an EML of double the ML of the higher version.

  • An RPG designed specifically for online play?   11 years 21 weeks ago

    and a bit long winded, so pardon this first post length.

    Firstly, Harn is the only system I have ever really enjoyed and used over the years. Back in the 80's I ran a game for about two years before my situation changed and we had to break up.
    I have been involved in RPG's off and on since 1978. The percentile system that Harn uses is the best and easiest to learn. But not enough people (at least in my gaming circles) knows about it or wants to use it.
    I agree with others,that there aren't enough people that want to learn a 'new system' and second, getting enough people together on one night (or afternoon) to do a game face to face.
    I discovered several years ago group boards online that call themselves 'rp boards' but it is actually collaborative writing. There are no gm's, no character sheets nor dice systems. Just writing. Everyone has a fundamental understanding of the universe (Star Wars in this case) and very little intervention was needed.
    At first I balked at the absence of a GM or rules, but if everyone knows the basic rules and physics of the environment and social system, you don't need a rule book or a GM to monitor everyone. I tried a game like that and it was very difficult to 'wait my turn' when the GM person wasn't there for a week and then we have to wait for the other players to make their move.
    The other, tinier and miniscule group is one that role plays in a chat environment. I played for about a year with a group that was doing a Matrix RPG. It's as close to person to person you can get online because..you are all there at the same time, scattered across the country. We had issues with people's connections and time differential, but the concept was sound.
    I haven't played the true Harnsystem in over ten years, but I would love to be involved in something online with a Harn rpg. Text, dice or otherwise.

    "It is what I have done with where I have been that should be of interest."
    Visit my worlds at infinityofstars.com

  • An RPG designed specifically for online play?   11 years 21 weeks ago

    and a bit long winded, so pardon this first post length.

    Firstly, Harn is the only system I have ever really enjoyed and used over the years. Back in the 80's I ran a game for about two years before my situation changed and we had to break up.
    I have been involved in RPG's off and on since 1978. The percentile system that Harn uses is the best and easiest to learn. But not enough people (at least in my gaming circles) knows about it or wants to use it.
    I agree with others,that there aren't enough people that want to learn a 'new system' and second, getting enough people together on one night (or afternoon) to do a game face to face.
    I discovered several years ago group boards online that call themselves 'rp boards' but it is actually collaborative writing. There are no gm's, no character sheets nor dice systems. Just writing. Everyone has a fundamental understanding of the universe (Star Wars in this case) and very little intervention was needed.
    At first I balked at the absence of a GM or rules, but if everyone knows the basic rules and physics of the environment and social system, you don't need a rule book or a GM to monitor everyone. I tried a game like that and it was very difficult to 'wait my turn' when the GM person wasn't there for a week and then we have to wait for the other players to make their move.
    The other, tinier and miniscule group is one that role plays in a chat environment. I played for about a year with a group that was doing a Matrix RPG. It's as close to person to person you can get online because..you are all there at the same time, scattered across the country. We had issues with people's connections and time differential, but the concept was sound.
    I haven't played the true Harnsystem in over ten years, but I would love to be involved in something online with a Harn rpg. Text, dice or otherwise.

    "It is what I have done with where I have been that should be of interest."
    Visit my worlds at infinityofstars.com

  • Firefighting   11 years 21 weeks ago

    I would strongly suggest that Harnic figher-fighting would follow a similar route as it did on Terra... fire is/was the bane of all city-dwellers, and historically everyone did what they could.

    More specifically, I would suggest that the primary brunt of the fire-fighting would fall on the city-guard. Not for the actual job of putting out the fires, but for the responsibility of organizing citizens into bucket-brigades, etc.

    One big difference between Terra and Kethira, of course, is magic. It is entirely feasible that a single Pelean or Odivshe may be on quasi-call for such emergencies. A few (even low level) spells would be far more more effective than a 50 man bucket-brigade :-)

  • Firefighting   11 years 21 weeks ago

    I would strongly suggest that Harnic figher-fighting would follow a similar route as it did on Terra... fire is/was the bane of all city-dwellers, and historically everyone did what they could.

    More specifically, I would suggest that the primary brunt of the fire-fighting would fall on the city-guard. Not for the actual job of putting out the fires, but for the responsibility of organizing citizens into bucket-brigades, etc.

    One big difference between Terra and Kethira, of course, is magic. It is entirely feasible that a single Pelean or Odivshe may be on quasi-call for such emergencies. A few (even low level) spells would be far more more effective than a 50 man bucket-brigade :-)

  • azadmere - Barony of Habe   11 years 21 weeks ago

    "Jeremy, after 1600-1900 years of isolation, and inter-marriage, will anyone remember who the slaves were? Or could this be a caste-based society? Perhaps they still perform ritual human sacrifice?"

    Its 1400 years since the Battle of Sorrows. Serfdom has persisted in other societies for centuries, so I don't see why "bondsmen" and slavery would not persist in Azadmerian Járin society.

    I don't have any issue with Azadmerian Járin society being 'unique' - what I object to is romanticising it; or assuming it has not evolved, or seeing it as "isolated". There was trade and contact with the Kald valley in the early years BT following the Battle of Sorrows, there were powerful and sophisticated Járin "Sea-Towns" around the Gulf of Shorkyne cBT450, the Kingdom of Emelrene was founded in BT670 and flourishes today (and it certainly is feudal), and there is contact and trade with Kaldor today...

    ---------------------
    Fástred na Beréma,
    Rówanti na Sávè-k’nôr

  • Homebrew weapon comparison table   11 years 22 weeks ago

    The aim point results spread differently and I increased the impact for a ES result. The target is used instead of a zero to represent a bullseye or on target result.

    http://documents.scribd.com/docs/mfouuv1qd2xexkrrxu4.pdf

  • Homebrew weapon comparison table   11 years 22 weeks ago

    The aim point results spread differently and I increased the impact for a ES result. The target is used instead of a zero to represent a bullseye or on target result.

    http://documents.scribd.com/docs/mfouuv1qd2xexkrrxu4.pdf

  • An RPG designed specifically for online play?   11 years 22 weeks ago

    I'm up to give it a play or two if anyone is running a game.

  • An RPG designed specifically for online play?   11 years 22 weeks ago

    I'm up to give it a play or two if anyone is running a game.

  • An RPG designed specifically for online play?   11 years 22 weeks ago

    Hey Sigurd,

    It looks like you and I have the same idea trying to get a Fantasy Grounds II game going for Harn! :) I'm replying to your post, since you did so on mine at the FG site. It would be great if we could spark some interest. Being in Toronto (Canada) I have yet to find anyone who plays Harn table top, so this is the best alternative in my mind.

    So far I haven't experienced any crashes with FGII related to map file sizes. Though I think the case for any data transfer over the internet is the smaller the better because of different peoples varying bandwidths.

  • An RPG designed specifically for online play?   11 years 22 weeks ago

    Hey Sigurd,

    It looks like you and I have the same idea trying to get a Fantasy Grounds II game going for Harn! :) I'm replying to your post, since you did so on mine at the FG site. It would be great if we could spark some interest. Being in Toronto (Canada) I have yet to find anyone who plays Harn table top, so this is the best alternative in my mind.

    So far I haven't experienced any crashes with FGII related to map file sizes. Though I think the case for any data transfer over the internet is the smaller the better because of different peoples varying bandwidths.

  • azadmere - Barony of Habe   11 years 22 weeks ago

    Robin, I met Balesir yesterday and we had a short discussion about Ázadmêre.
    I, too, am uncomfortable about ‘unfree tenants’ though my question was simply, why is Hábè a barony? The existing Ázadmêre write-up says:
    “Some of the first Járin to reach Hârn were permitted to settle within the kingdom because they had a tradition of farming and fishing, trades which the Khuzdul found distasteful. The relationship was successful and Kanahul IV allowed some Járin refugees of the Atáni Wars to settle within his domain.”
    The Chronology section says:
    “BT 1168 Járin settle in Ázadmêre - Hábè founded
    BT 1006 Construction of the Outer City
    BT 900 Beginning of the Atáni Wars”
    This should be a human culture unique on Hârn, a clan based ‘true’ Járin civilisation changed over almost two millennia by close working contact with the Kúzhai, not, just another feudal barony.

    Ken, I’d love to reboot the whole thing; I just don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some stuff is probably worth saving. But, who wrote what, and how much could I safely re-use?

    Jeremy, after 1600-1900 years of isolation, and inter-marriage, will anyone remember who the slaves were? Or could this be a caste-based society? Perhaps they still perform ritual human sacrifice?

    Andy, I completely agree.
    Ázadmêre states:
    “Peasant farmers tend to worship Peóni, the human nobility favour Laráni. A few humans worship Siém, Sávè-K’nôr or Haléa. Almost all Khuzdul worship some manifestation of Siém or his lieutenants (particularly Sereniel). The worship of Ágrik, Môrgath or Navéh is punishable by death.”
    Why should this be? They should be Ilvîran. Why would the Kuzhai let “troublesome priests” into their carefully controlled society?

    Other issues I have with Ázadmêre City:
    White Mountain Lodge, College of Heralds. Why? Surely there are only two or three blazons in the kingdom. The reason they exist – to keep a track of the population. They are a census-genealogy department. The Járin population must somehow be kept stable, otherwise they increase to the point where they eat all of the food and there is none left for the Kúzhai.
    Seafarers’ house. A seaman’s guild hostel on a (relatively) small inland lake without any guild structures! Delete!
    There are four human litigants in Ázadmêre City. Population is given as 6200 humans. What do the litigants do? Especially as “There is virtually no statute law, but the common law has hardly changed since the Járin immigration.” I say destroy all litigants!

    Here are a few suggestions for consideration:
    There is a (very small) sustainable fishing fleet (Járin) working the lake.
    These fishermen also act as bargees when the Silver Way caravan is due. The majority of the ‘export goods’ (gold, silver etc.) are barged down to Pédwar. This is not a big job, a handful of barges once a year.
    There is a daranog in the lake. Once a year (or possibly every solstice) a human sacrifice is made to placate the beast.
    Clan Kophâr have been (insert the Járin term for clanhead of clanheads [big chief?] here) for 1000 years. The few outsiders to have met the guy regard this position as Baron. It isn’t. Perhaps clan Kophâr don’t really exist, it’s just the clan name traditionally taken by the guy elected (for life?) as ‘big chief’.
    Adoption is commonplace/rife/expected in both the Kúzhan and Járin cultures. You want to become a miller? Approach one of the millers’ clans and see if they’ll adopt you. If you’re no good, you could be made clanless. The clanless live in Taniz. They have (??) years to get themselves into another clan. If they don’t, they’re told to leave. This keep s the population stable.
    Kúzhai are monotremes. And (vaguely) communist.

    If people think that it’s worthwhile me pursuing this then I’ll start work, who’s going to “create a new atlas map *with* manorial borders; measure (not guess) the acreages. I’ll certainly use the data.

    Neil

    - "Pardon me for living, I'm sure."
    - NO-ONE GETS PARDONED FOR LIVING.

    -- (Terry Pratchett, Mort)

  • azadmere - Barony of Habe   11 years 22 weeks ago

    I think I would look to Azadmere to be different from the 'standard' feudal Kingdom. After all, the Kingdom has been more-or-less isolated for a long time. The Jarin may have had slaves, but time, isolation and Khuzan influence may have moderated that to 'subservient clans'. I certainly think the culture should be far more clan-based - both as a result of the Jarin roots and the Khuzan cultural influence. How feudalism reached Azadmere is a mystery probably best avoided altogether... And religion - Larani and Peoni, how?? What missionaries were let in in the distant past? Surely Siem and Ilvir - possibly with very different slants than in Orbaal - would be more likely?

    Balesir


User login










Recent comments




Keléstia Connect





Who's online?

There are currently 0 users and 16 guests online.



© 2014 Keléstia Productions Ltd. and N. Robin Crossby (1954-2008).
The opinions expressed on this website are those of their respective owners and do not necessarily reflect the views of Keléstia Productions Ltd.
Trademarks are the property of their respective owners.