Ice Ages

Paul Lehman
Paul Lehman's picture

Quick skim of material and memory reveals nothing canon about Ice Ages on Kethira. Earthmasters chronology might interfere, or rather, godstone placement would fit better with last glacial maxima at maybe 25 or 30kya. Did I miss something?

rbs's picture

Quick Look

A quick check of the Hârnica on my laptop seems to reveal only one reference to a past glacial epoch. In the Introduction to Ivinia, under Vegetation & Topographys, it states: "The Ivínian Shield, located on either side of the Chazarian Sea, is a region scoured clean by glaciers."

Otherwise I might have said, perhaps Kethira is in a cool phase right now.

(Given the astrophysics of Nolomar, Kethira should be a lot hotter, where "a lot" means molten lead at the surface. But that's a debate that's been held too many times before.)

Paul Lehman
Paul Lehman's picture

molten lead, lol

Yeah, that's hotter.

Thx for the scan. I'm still in mid-disorganized mode. Been there for a few decades. Progress is slow.

Fwiw, I missed the Nolomar debate.

So, I guess I can do whatever I want in my epic, 38 volume, Geomorphology of Venarive. Gotta have glaciers, even in latitude 40-50, so maybe the Earthmasters triggered a warming phase on Kethira....


rbs's picture


It's possible I missed some other references to glaciation. Only a handful of my scanned Harnica files have been OCRed, but then only a few of the modules would include that sort of info anyway.

Regarding Nolomar, "debate" is overstating the matter. Basically, a major problem was noted about 10 years ago on HarnForum, and people said hmmmmm. By now just about everyone's forgot about it, although there are those who have lately been obsessed with figuring out the exact length of Kethira's year and how much the date of the full moon has shifted since the start of TR1.

Canon tells us Nolomar is a G2 star, that it has a mass 1.61 that of Sol, and that Kethira orbits at a distance of 174 Mkm. Mechanically, this is all very nice if you work the numbers, as you find that Kethira would have a year of 360 days.

But... according to the solar mass-luminosity relationship, if Nolomar is a main-sequence star (as implied by stating that it's a G2) then its luminosity is about 1.6^3.5 ~ 5.2 that of Sol. So even though Kethira is farther away from Nolomar than Earth is from the Sun, it's still much too close for the radiation it's going to get hit with. Something like a radiative flux about 3.8 times that which Earth receives.

The upshot is that the person who wrote the original info about the Nolomar system got the mechanics right but had no idea there were astrophysical issues in play. It wasn't Robin, as he told me years ago that someone else did the calculations. It sounded like math was not one of Robin's strengths.

Paul Lehman
Paul Lehman's picture

glaciers and Nolomar

No worries, I was just trying to make sure there wasn't somebody doing something geology related beyond those tectonic lines on the Venarive map. No reason to reinvent the wheel.

3.8x flux? LOL. No way I would know how to do the math beyond copying equations. Same way I do fluid mechanics though. ;-)

Has anybody ever worried about how people got to Kethira? Canon is the dwarves and elves arrived 5-10ka (go easy on my crappy details please), but I don't remember anything about where people came from. Interesting thought experiment for me since Venarive is basically a Bronze and Iron Age world with no Stone Age. Paleo or Neo.


rbs's picture

Godstones etc.

I think there's a general feeling that humans arrived via godstones, Barasi points, etc. And that they're presumably still doing so, as that that's the easiest way to explain similarlities with Earth culture.

Canon only seems to indicate the rise of earliest human civiliations around BT8000. Kethira mentions the "emergence" in "cradles". I have seen mention (unpublished AFAIK) to some peoples having ancestral mythos of emerging from caverns or from dragon's eggs. Possibly I've written some of that mythos. :)

Paul Lehman
Paul Lehman's picture


Ah, thx Rob, godstones and Barasi points make a lot of sense. Cradles = godstones and BPs then? Fewer people trickling into a wilder wilderness sounds about right.

*waves hand*

There is some fanon out there about Harnic geology. Won't and can't say more at the moment.

Lawrence Bryan
Lawrence Bryan's picture

Physics on Kethira

Since the sun IS that distance and the surface IS NOT molten lead, clearly the physics of Kethira is a bit different. Perhaps that would explain the ability of those guys and gals in Melderyn to do all that stuff we can't seem to do here on Earth.


pokep's picture


I produced this a few years ago.

It was a fun exercise, but the main thing it reveals is that game maps do not make for realistic geology. No offense to Robin or anyone else - it is just too difficult for the human mind to consider all the factor involved in creating a landscape that would pass muster with a geologist. There is hardly a statement in that article that can't be criticized with arguments along the same vein as the molten-lead-temperatures issue.

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