On the Silver Way: Questions
I had some questions on the starter adventure. I had some exchanges with Walt, and we thought we'd post them in case anyone else runs in to these. They also pose some decent food for thought.
Background
As I'm using this to reinforce my own understanding of the rules, as well as to help me figure out the best way to wean others onto HMK, I'm trying to go through each scenario as per rules. Since this is a starter adventure, I was wondering if I'm taking a too-literal approach. In other words, as a starter adventure, it might be perfectly acceptable to have a "just do it like this for now" approach to get the basic concepts. Nevertheless, I wanted to make sure I have a grasp on the rules and am not missing things. So without further ado, here are the results of some Q&A between Walt and me on "Encounter I" in On the Silver Way.
1. The encounter begins with some things already having happened. Azdar is already mid-stream, while the other two players have already completed their traversing of the ford. Then the Sheor starts doing some stuff. My questions centered around (a) the beginning of the combat encounter and (b) the timing of certain actions. The clarification is that we are indeed beginning right in the middle of the action; but there would be nothing incorrect about "rewinding" and having something like the following occur:
a. Nolora traverses the ford and perhaps makes a Stumble check with bonuses (apologies, Walt! Yes, I'm adding this now! lol). This may take a couple of turns, as the ford is considered Difficult Terrain.
b. This triggers the Sheor's proximity sensitivity, which it passes.
c. Elben traverses the ford like Nolora. This also may take a couple of turns as above.
d. Then the Sheor takes an Incant action to begin Turbulence.
e. Finally, Azdar begins traversing. And this is the actual point in which the original scenario begins.
So as it stands, I think my scenario is a bit too complicated as a starter, but it seems that the rules pan out rather well here for this. Thus, beginning in the middle of the action might be a great way to start off for a first-time group.
2. Nolora's Survival and Elben's Awareness tests are non-Round tests, so they can just make them.
3. Timing of the Sheor's actions. This is an area I'm still a little fuzzy on. So here's what transpired from our conversation, and I'll end with my remaining fuzziness. My question, again, is all about timing. The Sheor invokes Turbulence, and then on its next turn, it barrels down stream with Turbulence still active. The confusion on my part centers around when things trigger and terminate. It seems that the Sheor invokes Turbulence, which has a 1-round duration, and then it remains running until the end of its next turn.
My problem is I might be muddying up my own logic here, but this is what's running around in my noggin:
Round 1: Sheor (INI 40) takes an INCANT action for Talentstart. Talentstart is a 1-round action requiring concentration. It will conclude on INI 39 next round. So far, so good.
Round 2: Talentstart concludes at INI 39; as I believe a 1-round action does. At INI 40, the Sheor now conducts another INCANT action for Talentfire, which is described on p. 259 as a 1-turn action. The Sheor invokes the talent, so now Turbulence is a GO for 1-round. This to me implies that it takes effect right now on 40, and it shall continue until Round 3, INI 39.
Round 3: So hasn't Turbulence expired by Round 3, INI 40; in which case the Sheor cannot barrel over Azdar? I feel like I'm missing something here.
So my evidence for my possibly-erroneous thinking is: 1-round actions terminate BEFORE the turn of the next round, as evidenced by the Talentstart-Talentfire sequence. Talentstart is 1-round. When the next round starts, it has concluded by the time the invoker acts to INCANT and Talentfire. By similar reasoning, the Turbulence has been invoked on a turn, then continues through everyone else's actions, but is done by the time the invoker's turn comes back around. No?
OR! does this analogy not apply? Since Talentstart is a full-round action, it's not the same as a 1-round duration? Meaning, Talentstart is an action, so the Sheor took an action, and is concentrating on said-action all through everyone else's turns until its next turn. So on its next turn, it actually gets to take an action: INCANT. But when Turbulence is fired, it begins after the INCANT action, so I guess in a sense on 40.5'ish? So then, yes, the Sheor will have an action during its next round while Turbulence is still going, because it didn't take place at the START of its previous turn but rather at the END of it? As you can see, this was my largest question mark.
4. Azdar will still exude an Engagement Zone, even if he ends up flailing around in the water so long as he is still tethered. It'll just be an Engagement Zone of 1 (fist). I was confused about the Sheor being able to barrel through Azdar with Turbulence, since entities are required to stop when entering an engagement zone and are threatened. I think my confusion was, although the Sheor is an ethereal entity, it is occupying a corporeal form; its Bound Form. However, it can only be damaged corporeally through certain means, and Azdar's fist is not one of them. Therefore, it seems Azdar cannot actually threaten the Sheor, and thus the Sheor does not need to stop when entering Azdar's EZ. If Nolora was there with a sword -- a tertiary object that can indeed damage the ethereal binding to the corporeal form -- then I think we'd say that Nolora could threaten it, and it would have to stop, no?
5. I chose to have Azdar be considered "Prone-Light". The Turbulence knocks the hell out of him, and by the Press roll, he should have been knocked back 10-feet and considered Prone, requiring a SHK6 check. I chose not to do the SHK6 check, b/c he never actually fell down on anything due to the tether. Instead, he flailed around in the water. (Perhaps the SHK6 check still applies due to the collision of the water? But perhaps not, so I opted to skip the SHK check.) I chose instead that b/c he's flailing around in water he can technically stand in (although still deep), I had him spend 10-movement to regain his footing as if he were prone. Alternatives, though, were either a straight SWM test or SWM(AGI) test, and these could be boosted by the +20 for the tether.
I hope these help for anyone going through the Encounter. I'm continuing to play-test the remainder of the adventure.
Great job as always, KP team!
OtSW
Thanks for posting your game play, Darren. Here are a few comments to your numbered points:
1. I'd include these two amendments:
1d. The Sheor had taken a 1-turn Incant action to invoke Turbulence, succeeded on the test, and, thus, at the end of its "pre-start" IR40 turn, the 1 round duration of Turbulence began. ADDITIONAL NOTE: Although HMK rules do not explicitly state it, it is implied that—since all Elemental talents take a 1-turn action to Invoke, unless otherwise noted (page 358)—the "Incanting Time" is a Free action followed by the 1-turn Incant test.
1e. I would slightly rephrase this to: "Azdar has just reached the halfway point crossing the ford".
2. I would add Azdar's Agility test and the GM's secret Passive Sensitivity roll to the other "non-Round" tests. That is: the game simply begins with these three tests and one d10 roll, the GM imparts the various pieces of information, and then a proper Combat round begins, with players likely choosing actions and strategies based upon these initial rolls.
3. Your OR! section, and my amendment to 1d, essentially answer the question surrounding the timing of the Sheor's Turbulence talent. It had begun the talentstart on its previous IR40 as a free action and then immediately succeeded on the 1-turn Invoke action. Since the 1 round duration of Turbulence begins after (logically) the successful 1-turn action, it lasts for one full round through the end of its next IR40. Thus, as explained at the bottom of OtSW page 4, the Sheor takes a Move action on its first "real" turn, slams through Azdar while the Turbulence is still active, and then, with its turn over, the Turbulence now ends.
4. Those are all accurate takes on why the Sheor does not have to stop, or might have to due to potential disruption to its binding. While not stated in HMK, I might also house rule that the sheer size of the Sheor allows it an effective Overrun (page 353). Since Sheor's lack Zone Numbers, a GM could use its dimensions and Turbulence STR 30 as a guide for its effective creature size (Big?) and thus use a "virtual ZN20" number. This would follow the spirit of the Overrun rule, but would not be required for GMs to follow —but simply to consider as a house rule if they like it.
5. I would most definitely require Azdar to make the Shock Roll due to the impact of the water against him, but also due to the sudden jerking of the tether line. In fact, it occurs to me that the Shock Roll from being smashed by the water might include a -20 penalty because of the tether line. This is a bit like climbers being saved from a fall by their belay line, yes, but also then suffering trauma from it from the sudden stop.