matthewhmichaud's picture

I'm just getting into HarnMaster Gold, but I still have several of the old HarnMaster books and modules (the rules plus Battlelust, HarnManor, Pilot's Almanac, Religion, Magic, Barbarians, etc.). Is HarnMaster Gold compatible with all the old books?


ken's picture

HarnMaster Gold is another iteration of the HarnMaster system. Just as HarnMaster2 made some changes from the original HarnMaster, so does HarnMaster Gold (in fact it might said that HM:G is closer to the original version).

Other rule books designed for HarnMaster 2 for instance will have some descrepencies with HarnMaster Gold but they are by and large minor, and should be easily adjusted for.

Battlelust should work just fine, HarnManor and Pilot's Almanac likewise. Religion rules are contained in the HarnMaster Gold Player's Edition and supercedes the rules in HarnMaster Religion. HarnMaster Gold: Shek Pvar replaces HarnMaster Magic. HarnMaster Barbarians could be adapted (but I've never liked it in the first place :) )

Hope that helps Matt!

Shealladh's picture

What is wrong with HarnMaster Barbarians?

I'm also looking at HMG rules myself, so if you're trying to roll back the HMv3 rules you can waste a lot of time.

Just wish there was an article or simpler way to see the deviations and version of rules.

Run into the same thing for Harn Manor, the first version is simple, the expansion from CG moves towards their v3 rules. My concern with their version is the inflated data.

Will there ever be a "descrepencies with HarnMaster Gold" adjustment, maybe in the form of harndex?

Tempest13's picture

Harnmaster Gold is a update of Harnmaster 1st edition. It keeps a lot of the crunchy bits that were shaved off with Harnmaster 2nd and 3rd edition.
Harnmaster Barbarians is fine, except that the invocations are arbitrary and sometimes down right silly. Same goes for Harnmaster Religion where Larani has better healing then Peoni.

Harnmaster Gold will not have any discrepancies with Harndex as Harndex is system neutral.

Shealladh's picture

Yeah that's what my thought were.
Pity the rules format makes it confusing, they should have highlighted additions/modifications to base rules imho.
The change in format would allow you to mix n match the rules as you see fit, as they are not all products mix n match well, and to change/modify them, you have to become a rules wizard. That hampers the game sadly.
This happened with D&D, as an example, where 2nd, 3rd, 4th, editions are atkin to CG's v3, gold would be 3rd, and the core rules 2nd edition. Leaving the st edition rules as "classic" syled rules.
I get torn between supporting Kelestia & CG products, no matter which style or rule set you wish to use, it's more work than it should involve. The differences between products stem on their own paths, Kelestia is more akin to proper rules, whereas CG seems to go further on various fronts.
It comes down to vision of their IP, I'd prefer to back KEL all the way with a few exceptions like map style. There should be some common ground. Sadly atm, it's like robin's vision is like Michael Angelo, Kelestia is like Van Gogh, and CG is google maps.
Take another difference, HarnManor, the system is very useful and expands on the original, however in the usual CG manner, they inflate stats breaking feudal economic system. There needs to be some sort of primer for adjusting the level of economics, whereas the module is great, it does not justify a stagnant economic system that imho, breaks the realism. I mean, how does a manor is all the variety of Kingdoms vary using this system? Trade, production level, population, location, and social structure should adjust the pricing. It would be very beneficial to have a stand alone Economic rule book, that had a stack of data, adjustments, with the above mentioned pieces.
ie. HarnManor put into an economic simulator such as Patrician IV, Grand Ages: Medieval, Port Royale 3, Banished, or even Anno 1404 - Dawn of Discovery: Venice, as examples. Economic flow should also vary depending on Land or Sea, the markets, ports, and the flow of goods should fluctuate within the Kingdoms, shires, towns and villages. If you use HarnManor to flesh out a new provincial area, you should be able to create a new addition to the economic model and over time, see shifts in which goods are in demand or decline. In turn, affecting the population and social order of the living world in each and every area.