fief acres claimed and used

Paul Lehman's picture

1) Noticed this change and it jibes with something else I am working on. I like the change overall and wonder if there is any discussion or rationale about it out there that I missed?

2) I also figure this is the right place to ask about your conception of the non-claimed parts of larger fiefs, including whole kingdoms. Tribal areas and monsters inhabit most of these areas, but several places it mentions running sheep in the hills, in a way that implies using land outside the claimed portions of manors. I always wondered about the areas outside (claimed) manor lands. Stuff like whether and how they were used by miners, foresters, hunters, shepherds, runaways, and the generally marginal in society.


Fastred's picture

Paul - it has always been known that only a proportion of a fief is actually used productively; whether for arable, pasture or other forms of agriculture. We simple explicitly included this data in the statistics, because the maps are now much more accurate, it is possible to measure both the 'used' area and the unused areas.

Fastred's picture

The 'non-claimed' areas of larger fiefs - i.e. areas not subinfeuded as part of a manor or other estate - are technically part of that larger fief.

Your intuition that these areas of land are generally used by miners, foresters, hunters and others marginal in society is generally correct.

What rights exist in terms of the use of this non-subinfueded land depends on the particular jurisdiction. For instance in many feudal lands, mining rights are a Crown prerogative; it is the Crown that grants mining licences. But this is not always the case: in Shôrkýnè mining is a prerogative of each Count (Málnîr); while in Emélrenè the situation is even more complex; mining rights are Crown prerogative in some areas, but not within Émhlè (Free Eméla) ranges...

So, as always, the answer to your question is... it depends :)

Paul Lehman's picture

Thx Fastred. I see the tribal/Nadi/etc. populations listed, but what about the regular old civilized humans (say Haraaler or Shorkyni) out there? Would they be included in the population of the larger fief (for tax, registration, whatever) purposes?

pokep's picture

Unless indicated otherwise, where you have two or more overlapping populations under different jurisdictions each population will be listed under their respective group. So the Shorkyni population numbers includes not just those within the borders but also those brave folks that have pushed across them. If the latter category is significant the numbers may be called out in the text.

Paul Lehman's picture

So, for example, there are a bunch of mines in Elavona, south of the Atox. Where are those miners "registered"? Abreshes? Logines? Unamed settlement? Just trying to sort this stuff out.

Fastred's picture


Populations are 'allocated' at that level of detail in the Atlas Keléstia (AK) square publications.

For instance, take the square AK-SHKN-AX Ârgonel:

- the mining village of Glívan, which supports a number of mines outside of the manorial boundaries (and thus also outside the boundary of Ârgonel Barony), but within Gýtè Hundred, has a population listed of 16 HH (or approximately 80 miners and their families / camp followers / cooks etc).

- just to the south-east of Glívan is part of the Émhlè range of Quándas Âren ésal. This part of the range is centred around the lodge of Álun-ul. This location is listed as having a population of 10 HH (or approximately 50 individuals). These are the Émhlè (free Eméla) who live in that area.

Hope this helps.


Paul Lehman's picture

Yeah, that's what I was looking for. Tbh, haven't read that far ahead yet, still poring over the Shorkyne map. That map looks real good, and the skimming of Argonel even better. Thx again.

rbs's picture

And as far as the particular examples are concerned, the mine(s) would be in the 'unsettled wilderness' and would be held by the Miners Guild, either from Abeshres or Linuga, depending on the location.

Paul Lehman's picture

Thx Robert, that helps too. Reluctant to put you on the spot, but here I go anyway. Should I expect a miners village or three near there, OR perhaps the miners HHs are an integral part of the Abreshres or Linuga populations?

Same logic hold for trappers, lumbermen, etc.?